Welcome to the HVAC Financial freedom podcast, a show where we talk about business ownership and financial freedom by sharing stories and advice of experts who can help you get there now your host john victoria. Hello and welcome HVAC Financial freedom. This is john victoria here with the HVAC Financial freedom podcast and I am here with the incredible scott Bell of Elk grove California. And if you are unfamiliar with him, I just want to give you a quick background into his story. Uh, currently he is the director of program training at Abraham University.
If you're familiar with jay Abraham, you know, big big name, um, he's also the founder of Aries 7 11 LLC, based in sacramento California actually just got back from sacramento, but it is a marketing and training organization. He's also a podcast, a fellow podcast host at the How to South show as well as a former sales trainer at Gilmore heating, air conditioning and plumbing and a former comfort advisor at Bell brothers Welcome scott. How you doing today? I'm doing good. How are you today? I'm doing good, super excited.
Um, so I just kicked things off. You know, we have only, you know, we don't know how much time we have today, but I just want to dive right in because for those are the people that don't know your story. You know, I want them to understand it. So I want to know the real scott Bell. You know, what's, what's your story? Like how do you get started in uh, in sales training. So we're gonna have to go backwards to the year 2000, we're going to go like the way back machine and I got started in insurance sales and I sucked, I was like the 10th worst person on the planet, like it didn't work out very well.
So my, my dad owned a pest control company. So I went back to doing pest control and my uncles had a heating and air conditioning company in the same building. And so my uncles came to me and they said, hey, do you want to try doing heating and air sales? Sure why not? I'll try it. So my first like full year was like 2000 to 2003 and back in the day, it was a big deal in 2000 to 2003 to actually hit a million dollars in revenue, like sold revenue because like systems were four and $5000 like now they're like 15 2025 depending upon where you live here in California.
I mean that's, that's pretty normal. Yeah, So I wanna say 2006, they came to me and they said, Hey Scott, you know, it's easier for us to get the owners of the company, the owners of the heating and air company came to me and said it's easier for us to acquire leads as a tune up than it is to acquire leads for a new system. And so I went from being a comfort advisor to being a technician. So I got sent to Arkansas for two weeks crash course and heating and air, you know, I've always worked on cars.
So I mean like it was, it was just working with equipment and so From like 2007 to 2010 I was a technician But during 2007 to 2010 I was training technicians for communication skills And I trained this guy named Christopher Shaw. And in the air time 500 world I want to say Chris was the top tech 10 years in a row. From like that 2007, 2008 to 2016 he was the top technician. And so uh figured out from reading tons of books on sales and psychology and business and body language and decision making, how can I help technicians sell better?
And I did. So that's that's my background, that's my story, That's awesome. And I guess we were to do a quick let's say we met at a networking event, you know, quick 62nd pitch. Like how would you describe like who do you help and like how do you help them? Yeah, I I help technicians know how to sell better, get the homeowner engaged in ways that most people don't do because it's completely counterintuitive um it uses zero pressure and it's all on the consumer, it's all on the homeowner.
So you know if there was a company that I could help, it's usually a company with 10 or 12 technicians that are out there selling typically above that 8 $10 million range and above awesome. Okay. And um so I guess like let's say that, you know, I was that company owner, like how would you, like what would that process look like? So would it, you know like how do you help people like more tactically, would it be like you go into their sales organization and then you help train them up in certain ways?
Like what is, what is that day to day look like when you're helping them? So like what I've done is companies will have me come out and work with teams for a couple of days and get the teams trained and then some ongoing training afterwards. So um you know, it's not just like here set it and forget it. One of the biggest mistakes that I'm going to tell anybody who's watching this and I don't care if you do plumbing, I don't care if you do heating and air.
At one point I was in charge of training over 220 employees. So like I did this daily and I would go round and round with ops managers saying we don't have the money to train technicians, we don't have the money to train, you know the plumbers and so what would happen is it would be like ramp up, ramp down the ramp up, ramp down and, and whatever process that you use, whoever's training, you decided to use upon the thing is, is there's got to be consistent training and so like people tell me, hey scott, like I, there's the initial cost of getting it going, I'm gonna say yes, absolutely, there's always that initial cost of getting it going, but it becomes self sustaining with the right training, it becomes self sustaining with making sure that people are doing what they're supposed to.
So can I go backwards for a second and tell you a story? When I worked with chris shaw, We would, we would train every day from 6:00 AM till seven and chris and I would compete on who could have the shiniest shoes, who could have the tightest uh, iron mark in the shirt, right? But we would compete to, who could get to this office first and for four days a week we would, we would practice our door approach, I would go, he would go, I would go, he would go and we would have guys come and say, hey, we want to work with you, we want, we want to come role play with you, you guys are crushing it, you know, chris numbers are through the roof scott, you do pretty well, we want to come role play and practice with you and we would role play and practice the door approach four days a week and we would probably get about 15 to 20 repetitions each and people that did not want to believe that that's what we did, They didn't want to believe that on four days a week we did door approach on the fifth day, we did role play.
And so what would happen is we would have 15-20 door approaches before we went to our first call and everybody else was practicing. So we made the mornings are secret weapons and like I, I've always carried that belief that like if you're really gonna get somebody to be good monday, morning training is probably gonna be the best time to do it because you're starting out the week, you're starting out fresh, like that's gonna set the impetus, that's gonna set the beginning of the entire week for everybody.
I love that. And yeah, for most people who are going into monday's, they are groggy from the weekend and really just setting the right tone, especially for sales, it's gonna give you the momentum to swing into the week. Um, and I love how you, you know, focus so much on just building those, those good habits on a day to day basis. Um, you know, controlling the morning doing it day to day. Um, I think it's something that's missed. I feel like some people think that success is this big event, but many times it's the beauty of the small moments and I love how you built that into your sales process.
Um And development. You know uh eventually one of the places that I worked, we built a school and the technicians would start fresh. They had never been in heating and air and they would move into the world of heating and air. And uh It was a mandatory thing for them to graduate that their door approach was at 100 mm And like that was one of the graduating criteria and they were told up front like you gotta get your E. P. A. License, you got two times to take it and then you have to you have to get 100% on your door approach and you know in the beginning they were like really why?
But it made them fluid because like look I teach body language, I teach sales, I teach persuasion and whether we want to believe it or not we're judged in the first 3 to 7 seconds when somebody sees us. So somebody was looking at me going either I want to watch this episode or listen to this episode based upon the picture and the criteria and the information that was given by john or I don't well we have the same thing. You go and knock on the door. You've got between three and seven seconds for someone to say I'm either making a purchase for you for parts today for a complete system or I'm not buying a thing from you And sure you can you can turn it around but it usually takes heavy discounting and and it's usually not what you think it is.
So I've done, I've lost count of how many ride alongs that I've been on. Like that was part of my role for almost 10 years was to ride with sales people day in day out technicians day and day out. So I have a different view of what actually goes down on a sales call because I'm not watching it from the sales side. I'm watching from a co pilot seat. I love that. And if you were to break down like what does that look like, what does, what does the 100% rated?
You know um you know, show up at the door like what does that look like in terms of body language tonality, how they're dressed like what does that ideal person look like? So like let's just go down through the uniform more than the person because like I've got a round head so like it'd be pretty hard to describe 100% perfectly. Oh yeah, but like here here's, I will tell you this the the guys who I have found are fanatical about their own process are the ones that do the best.
Um So I think back of chris, chris would polish his shoes every day, chris would go nuts on, making sure that his iron was perfect on his sleeves, on his shirts right, they knew that image matter. So if if I was to be out in a service van today and if I was out there and I was gonna knock on the door one, I would make sure that I'm fully prepared and that somebody recognizes that I am the person that's prepared. You know, uh, I've practiced the door approach tens of thousands of times maybe, you know, just going through and having that conversation over the years that I've done it.
So I'll give you this, I'll tell you the people who struggle the most, the people who struggle the most are the ones that don't have any type of structure that they're working with. They fly by the seat of their pants and I'll give you numbers If if you have somebody who, um, flies by the seat of their pants on their door approach, they will have between a 13 and 17% closing rate on partnership plans or club memberships. they will have a subpar average ticket. And if they are meant to set leads, they don't set leads.
And if by chance they do set leads. They're difficult to sell. They take heavy discounting and their buddy deals, john, I'm your friend, you're my friend, let's make a deal happen for the people who do this, right. They prepare before they go on the call, they'll sit in their van and I've seen the gambit, I've seen everything you can imagine like I, I listen to opera music and I listen to classical music because I have a hearing condition. So let's just take me, for example, opera, classical music.
I think about the call that I'm going on. I never believe the notes. Like if there's anything that I can help your people with, never believe the notes that are in a crm, I don't like, it's just an indicator that the real question is, am I meeting with somebody who can make a decision? I don't care about like all the insides and the outsides. They've got home warranty. It's, it's a rental property. None of that stuff really matters. The thing that matters is can the person I'm meeting will make a decision.
That's it. Right? So like if you're in the world of sales, if you're looking for a reason to find an objection, I guarantee you're gonna find five or 10 of them. So the best guys who go to a call or girls are gonna be the people who are prepared who can hold a conversation, build a little bit of rapport, um, can bring somebody back in when they get off topic and then use a structure. I love that. I absolutely love that. Um and what's the quote by Abraham Lincoln?
It's, you know, given, given eight hours to chop down the tree. You know, I would spend six hours sharpening the ax and then two hours to cut it down. Similar thing. It's like when you, when you, when you, when you meet with your customer, you're already ready with how you look at the things that they might say, how are you gonna approach things? You know, if there are notes, you know, making sure that decision maker letting anything to contextually be ready for that conversation. So it's not taken unaware.
Well, I'll add something else. The best guys that I've written with, they keep a journal. And so like when they run into something, they have good notes that they come back to and they say under this situation, here's what I would do and here's what they do to, let's say john that you've been out in the field longer than me. They go to people and say I ran into something weird? How do I deal with this? So they're building a mental database or a database in a book of like here's what I do when I run into something weird or something strange.
And it's funny because I talked to chris shaw, I don't know once a week, twice a week. And sometimes as we're talking, I hear him pause and I've known him long enough that he's writing notes. He still takes notes based upon conversations that him and I have and we chuckle about it. I love that. And is, do you think that's something that's like innate to somebody. Someone is a curious learner or is this something that you can help train because you know, for someone who wants to grow, you know, a big organization, you'll want to be able to pass this to your tax.
Not only just have it with yourself, but how do you train people to have this attitude? Is it something you can train? Or is it something that you have to look for as a quality when you are procuring talent? Just, you can, you can train for it. You just have to find people who are open minded. Like the second that people start giving me pushback, I'm like, look at this stage of my life. I'm not interested in push back. If you don't want to do what I have to say, that's fine.
But at that point they're wasting my time. Their time and company resources. Like I have a, I have a proven model. It's not something that just created yesterday. So like I have this happen. I mean it still happens to me. I'll go somewhere. I'll train and guys like I'm not into this, I'm not interested. I want to run my own model, my own process and I'll talk to their manager and say tell me about their numbers. I can pretty much tell you what they are and I write them down I guess and I'm usually pretty pretty close to what they are.
Occasionally I'm wrong, but it's usually a Wednesday and a full moon love that. Yeah, it's the data smokes it out the data smokes it out numbers do not lie. I love that. It's funny because the guys who complain the most about the numbers are usually the people who are in the bottom of the middle of the pack, the people who are at the top, they don't care. It's like they keep their own score, they know their own numbers. Um I just got to let you know to like, I don't have a filter.
So I tend to hurt people's feelings by answering some of the questions that you ask me. No, I'm sure everyone who's watching I myself as well, you know, no, no harm, no foul. I'm totally fine. Um that's amazing. So so I guess so now we've talked a little bit about the numbers. Um I'm curious more as to, you know, what are some of the techniques that you would recommend? So, you know, I know in psychology, you know, there's, I've read the book, um I think it's psychology that no, sorry, influenced by robert Sheldon.
E and there's yeah, the book, six triggers or the six biases Um for you, like what are those, I guess tools or those tactics that someone can use to help improve their selling. Maybe, you know, you could buy additional 5-10% or or anything like that. What are those tactics that someone can implement? Okay, so one of the things that happens when you do sales training is your time speeds up. So we have a tendency when we get excited, including me to want to speed up any sales process to get to the end to get to the clothes.
But since we sped up to get to the end to get to the close now we need to speed through the discounting now. We need to speed through whatever is going on to make that deal happen, whether it's parts pieces memberships, complete complete units, complete systems. So I would say the difference between the technicians who closed deals, set leads, sell parts and pieces are the guys and the girls that slow the process down for about 5 to 10 minutes and it's counterintuitive because you know, you've got people, you got call centers that are saying hurry up and get done.
Like when I was a technician, the last thing I wanted to hear was hurry up. Like I'm in the middle of closing a deal. I'm sitting at the table and I'm getting text messages and phone calls like where are you at? You've got your next call, like don't worry about me, I'm at a deal. I'm trying to set a lead. Like I get it, there's somebody behind me, but at the same time you want me to hit numbers, it's gonna take a few extra minutes of that.
Yeah, just speed, just uh you know, it kills, it can kill the relationship. You just begin to rush people. Um very similarly a metaphor I love is you know, let's say that you, you plant plant something a seed in the soil and someone thinks that. You know, if they try to pour too much water to rush it, you know, you're just gonna kill the plant and so very similarly, you don't want to, you want to nurture that relationship and if you rush it, you're gonna end up with a lost lead or like you said, just discounting heavily doing a buddy deal, I would also say that like there there is a point in place for sales training, but there's also a time and place for other type of training and so conflict resolution.
Like if I was, if I had been out in the field for a couple of years, I'd pick up a couple of audio books on conflict resolution Because that's what technicians and salespeople deal with. They go to a call, they sit down with a buyer, they sit down with a homeowner and there's conflict, like I can't believe that this is gonna be a $700 repair. I can't believe this is $1,000 repair. I can't believe that you guys were just here six months ago and we didn't have this problem.
So a lot of training deals with, hey, here's what you do to sell the process, which is fine and here's what you do to overcome the objection. But what a lot of technicians and a lot of sales people aren't prepared to do is have tough conversations and explain what a situation is and explain why there's a problem and be calm through it. You know, there's a lot of times when I do ride alongs, if I'm with the technician, sometimes the tech will just get, just get frustrated to throw their hands in the air.
They go, hey scott, can you explain this? I can't say no, I gotta, I gotta know my system. So I got to know my parts, I got to know my pieces and I gotta say, here's what you're up against and here's the struggles that you're facing and here's the situation that you're in, here's what your options are awesome. And it sounds like a lot of emotional management as well, especially in tougher situations, you get stressed. Uh, you know, your amygdala fires up, you got fear in your eyes and you're just, you're just going to rush things again.
Um, and how do you control your emotions in those moments? And so I think part of what you're saying is training, I'm having a given process in place, but also maybe some place to step back mentally, like, like this is gonna be okay. Yes, there's emotions in the moment, but you know, we're gonna get through this, we have a process. Um, and that's I can say like the value training every, like this is one of the things people will call me and they just go scott, can you tell me everything's gonna be okay, that that's, that's all they want to hear.
They just want to hear everything's gonna be okay. I love that. I love that. Um, so I guess transitioning you mentioned to me earlier about lead cannibalization, what is that? And can you tell me like how do we solve? Is this an issue like how do we solve for like what is this lead cannibalization that you mentioned to me earlier? Yeah. So like good companies run off of numbers and technicians and sales. People usually don't like to hear that, but it's the truth. I mean the best people that I know that run businesses will say we're a marketing company first and then we're a service and and installer sales company second.
And when I first heard that I kind of pushed against it and said, I don't know if that's necessarily true. I don't know if I like that, but at the end of the day in order to make a business move, you need to bring in new clients. But sometimes there's such a push to acquire sales or such a push to acquire repairs that that front first visit is a cannibalization of the lead. That front first visit is so sold so hard to set a new lead for a system or for parts and pieces that the next visit the home and was like, look, I already know I need a new one and I'm not buying one.
Mm So it creates conflict right through the door like, yes, great. You have a club member or or a partner who's on a plan, but you've just created a problem for the next guy. So what does the next guy do? He finds more damage. He finds more issues with the equipment, He finds more problems and then goes, by the way, you need a new one. So by the third visit, the homeowner is like, I don't want to listen to this, I don't want to go through this.
And if they do set a lead, they, that homeowner might come back and say I'm gonna get other bids. I'm gonna talk to other people, which is fine. It's just the lead. Cannibalization, cannibalization is something that really does happen. You know, if if you're sitting with me and I'm your technician, you're never gonna hear me say you need a new one. Your that that doesn't come from me. That comes from your decision process, you're probably gonna ask me, I think I probably need a new one or sounds like I should probably take a look at getting a new one and at the same time I'm gonna say, hey, that's up to you.
That's your decision, right? You got kids, john not yet. You have nieces and nephews, you've seen kids playing and their parents tell them what to do and the second that you tell a kid what to do, what do they do? They say no? Like I'm 46 as of last week. Ok, so my three year old brain is 43 years old. So I've gone through 43 years of telling people no when they tell me what to do and so sure I can tell you what to do as an adult, but you're gonna give me push back.
So the entire training process that I create is based upon that decision gotta be yours. That's on you. That's not on me. I see. So just kind of drawing the contrast. There is the the used car salesman who might push, push, push, push, push and more of the approach you're talking about is it's more facilitating that decision with them and you are, it's not a me against you. It's more like we're together and you're helping facilitate that sales process together with them to make a decision and what's in their best interest.
It's more collaborative. It's in like every a deal is a deal. And here's one of the struggles that sells people face is they'll look at a way a deal is done and they go, I wouldn't do it that way. So that's the wrong way to do it, right? So I can sell aggressively, I can push people and I can close deals. It's not my preference. I'm more of a passive sales person. I'm more of a conversational salesperson at the end of the day what way matters? It's the one that gets the results that you care about.
Like, john if I'm working for you and I close the deal passively or I close the deal aggressively doesn't matter you which way I did it. I like sometimes people when they watch me interact with salespeople or technicians or like I wouldn't do it that way. Great. Then don't, if you got better numbers, then that's fine. But if the numbers aren't there do it the way that I'm showing you of that and it um it reminds me of, I don't know if you've read the book, I believe it's called a dream.
It's about the dream 100. It's the concept of having, you know, 100 of your dream clients and they tell a story in the book about how the consultant they brought on to implement dream 100 he implemented it and for the first six months, absolutely nothing. Month seven nothing. Month eight nothing. And they were talking like, did we hire a club, like is this guy going to do anything? Month nine nothing. And the month 10, that's when everything just blossomed. And this guy did more sales and everyone in the entire department, but it was more of a pull approach rather than a push approach.
And I think that's the beauty of it. It's uh, you know, many times it's not always gonna be maybe the quack the quickest or the one that you're where you're pushing, but it's something that, you know, you're nurturing things over time and you keep that relationship and it's just exponential from there. And so so you've read the book dreaming the Dream 100 concept. Dream 100 concept is something that originally came from Chet Holmes. Yeah. And then Dana Derek wrote a book called Dream 100 as well. So yeah, I love that, awesome.
So I gotta tell you prior to 2012, I read just about every book that was written on sales. What would you say is your your top three for for top sales books? They're not gonna be books on sales, Right? So uh I don't it's over on the bookshelf, green eggs and ham by dr Seuss. I would have never expected that book. I've actually never heard that recommendation. Seven years ago, I wrote a book review on amazon for green eggs and ham saying this is the best sales book ever, Right?
So like this isn't something I'm just saying today, you have to explain this. Like I I'm I'm I'm leaning in. Okay, so like if you go through green eggs and ham, it's a book that's 62 pages long. Okay, and sam I am dudes a closer, He doesn't he's not aggressive in the fact that he's like you have to do it? He closes the deal by asking questions, would you like them in a box? Would you like them with the fox? Would you like them here or there? Would you like them anywhere, Right.
And it's a good reminder that sales is all about questions, questions and stories? Mm I love that. Okay, so like think about this. You're having a bad day, right? When you're having a bad day, you pull out green eggs and ham and you read that book out loud and by the time that you're done, you're laughing. Yeah. Uh I live here in sacramento. I went to target Green eggs and ham was like $6.70. Like I have probably 14 or 15 copies of that book just because something happens. I'm having a bad day.
I'll go buy a book Green eggs and ham. Mm I love that. # two on that list. Um Start with No by Jim Camp. Mm And Chapter one is all about. Do not be needy. Is that the is that the general premise of the book as well? Just it's actually a book on negotiation. Okay. Book on negotiation. And then book # three would be from my good friend and mentor Dr. Kevin. Hogan Psychology of persuasion. What would be a quick like 32nd? Like what's that book about the psychology of persuasion?
Psychology of persuasion? Um think about the actions that you take as an individual to make decisions in your life and what it would take to persuade you to get you to say yes. I see. So understanding your decision making heuristics and like how you make decisions on different things? Um and how we're all influenced. Right? You're you're gonna be more influenced by me in a jacket than not in a jacket. That's scientifically proven. You know, you can just go down the list and figure out where all of the elements of persuasion and what you have leverage to.
Um I'm sure you've read it, you know, the Daniel Kahneman books, um you know, all of the heuristics as well, how you're impacted and we think we're making decisions, but there's things that are invisible that are impacting our decision, then we fabricate a reason why we're doing something based off of these heuristics in our environment. Um And it kind of reminds me of that like the psychology of persuasion um like not mean you can think about it, but also there's some things that you just don't even realize or impacting how you're making your decisions.
You know what's a good video to watch. It's it's got some vulgarity to it. So like if if that's going to stop you from watching it, probably don't watch it. But there's a scene in the movie focus from Will Smith 2015 Where they talk about psychological priming and like if you understand how priming works and how the psychology of priming works, it changes how you influence 100%. Mm? I love that. Um So I guess to tie some of these back to uh just like marketing in general for an HVAC company you you mentioned earlier, how important it was for organizations, not just think of what they do, but think of themselves primarily as a marketing organization.
So I'm curious like how, what advice would you give to someone who is looking to stand out in a crowded market or maybe they are a newer player and they're looking to get their name out there, you know, aside from the sales, um, you know, what, you know, what can someone do to, you know, be different than everyone else that's out there. Like, are we, is it do with branding? Does it have to do with doing out direct outreach cold calling? Like how how does someone begin to get known in their market?
Sure. Like I'm gonna, I'm gonna reference jay abraham because he is ultimately my, my, my first mentor and the cool thing about working with him weekly is getting to hear these conversations over and over again. And so what I would start with this is when you make your own personal decision, what do you do to define Trust? And I really want you to think through that. Like, what causes you to trust somebody because ultimately, at the end of the day, we can come up with all the gimmicks.
We can come up with all the content that you want. We can come up with advertising that's slick. We can come up with logos, but let's start with trust, what do you do that causes trust. Mm I'd say, um if you would ask me the question, I'd say one thing would be consistency and also having integrity meaning let's say you make a promise. You keep it. Uh let's say, you know, in the context of, let's say you schedule a point with someone and you show up at their house at the time that you said that could be one example of building, you know, many form of trust.
Let's just go through the process. Okay? So if you, if you're living in a marketplace that has a lot of companies, you can go to amazon and you can see, I'm sorry, You can go to google and you can see all the things that somebody does that you don't like. Right, read the reviews. Why do people not like a company and then you don't do that. Mhm. It sounds, it sounds simple, but like you can create guarantees or warranties based upon what people in your marketplace don't like.
Okay, So you can say, hey look, you know, our pricing is guaranteed. Like maybe if everybody's complaining about pricing, which I got to tell you that when I, when I worked with technicians, that complaint came up a lot because everybody thinks that $5 capacitor should cost him seven bucks at the door. So, um, you start with the way that you explain how your services are. Okay. So we talked about priming, we talked about the movie focus for a second. I said that there's a scene you can, it's about six minutes.
But that first interaction that somebody has with you as a client, As a, as a customer is so powerful. How are they treated on the phones? How are they talked to? Because they're gonna explain who's coming out to a home? So the best csrs that I dealt with and dispatchers would tell homeowners you're going to like scott, he's a lot of fun. He's a little rough around the edges, but he's a lot of fun, you're gonna like him. So that interaction planted a seed. They primed the buyer into believing that I was going to be a little bit of fun for a lot of fun.
But I was also rough around the edges so they were prepared for it. Okay, so then we go into the consistency. What was the interaction like with the homeowner? Was the technician prepared? Was the salesperson prepared? The comfort advisor prepared. Um, I rode with a guy one time I live here in sacramento. Okay. And from highway 50 and I five to folsom where johnny cash saying prison blues is about 25 miles. And the office We had already been driving for 15 minutes and the sales guy goes, I don't have any contracts, I don't have any contracts.
How are you, a salesman and don't have contracts. Here's ah you know what, we'll deal with it when I get there. So we drive the folsom, we go to the home, the guy gives an okay presentation. Homeowner is ready to buy the homeowner wants to buy the homeowners excited about buying and sales guy goes, oh, I'm out of agreement, why don't we just set up an appointment for tomorrow? He couldn't ever get that guy back on the schedule because the guy said, if you weren't prepared to accept my money when I was gonna give it, you're not prepared to take my money or take care of me when I need you the most lost the deal.
So like, I think in terms of not like what happens right now, What do I need to have happened 10 minutes ago? Okay. So I'll give you an example. I have 2600 YouTube videos on sales, 2600 when I, when I created them, I didn't need them. I did it way before I needed them. I did it way before it was an issue or way before that I needed to have some sort of proof. I just started creating content. So like, I, I like to think in terms of what can I do right now to prepare my client for the future.
Wow, I love that. I love that. Just very, being very proactive about what are those needs in the future. Um, I love that and that's, that's crazy. That guy just literally talked himself out of the sale, you know, but not having the documents ready. Like I was shocked, you know, and the guy was a nice guy. He just to say, I'm not prepared to go to a deal. I'm not prepared to make a sale was just, I didn't get it. Mm And you think it's just like a motivation thing?
Do you think it's just like a tactical thing or like what's going on? So like, I mean that's, I mean someone is literally about to hand you money. That's like your sole goal, right? So to make the sale. So like what would happen there? Like what, like was it, It was okay. So I'll tell you, I'll tell you what it was. So for some sales people as soon as they hit their monthly number, they quit. Mm If they, if they need $8,000 a month to live on, they will sell $8,000 of commission.
Some people need $8,000 a month to live on and they will sell $400,000 to to get to wherever they need to be. It's just internal drive. This, this guy literally would say what's wrong with making $80,000 a year, wow, I'm not knocking it. That's his personal choice. But as soon as he, he hit whatever number he needed to in his head he stopped selling. Mhm, wow. And I'm curious like how does one reset that barometer or that, that, that cap. Um, you know, I've seen personally like the way that I've done it is, I've attended different conferences.
I've met different people and they just shift my norm as to what's possible in a certain area of life. That could be fitness. It could be business, it could be sales. Um, but you know, you're right. Like some people just get stuck at a certain cap and I'm curious like if you have any advice on someone who's, who feels like, hey, I want to do more, but my psychology seems to be keeping me at this cap. Like how does one break through that, that ceiling? Yeah, I'm gonna say pay for your own training. Mhm.
So like when I, at one point my role and responsibility included hiring people. So I had 220 employees that I had to train. Uh, I would interview frequently for installers for salespeople, for technicians, for office staff. And I would use a similar playbook across the board. But what I found like if you were coming into me for an interview interview, john I would flat out tell you, john, it's very nice to meet you. This is gonna be the toughest interview you've ever had in your life. And I wouldn't let you build rapport with me and I would go into town asking you questions right.
And then one of those questions would be john tell me what you've done to invest in yourself. Mm hmm, wow. And you know, sometimes people say, hey scott, I don't have the money to invest. But I went to the library, I got a library book. I borrowed a neighbor's book. Like that shows me initiative. That shows me something or tell me john tell me a time in your life where you succeeded where you thought you were gonna fail. Mm hmm. Yeah. And like when people can't come up with stuff like that, I go and I'll tell, I would have told him in the in the interview, my biggest concern at this point is you're gonna give up on me when I need you the most if I hire you and you haven't stuck with anything and you want to do sales.
My fears. You're gonna give up give up on me when I need you the most. So like that that would be for a sales role for a technician. I might give some push back and say, hey look your, your role and responsibility is gonna be to sell items and products and services. Tell me how you feel about that. And if you don't like it, why should I why should I continue on with this conversation? Mm wow love. It also reminds me of a question that I heard where someone might have had an amazing interview at the end of the interview.
The person doing the interviewing says you know it was great to speak with you. Um you know you it was great talking to you but you know we just don't think it will be a good fit and then at that moment they want to see if the other person will push back to see if you know, if if they will, if they don't then they failed. That's like the final test. Um It's beautiful, it's a beautiful thing to really, you know, see what people do naturally um if they really believe in themselves, if they're going to push for that position.
So it's interesting you bring that up that that came from Chet Holmes as well. That's that's where your you picked that up from. But if you do enough interviews and you sit through enough people talking, there is a difference between somebody who has certainty on their voice and somebody who doesn't. So I interviewed a really nice guy and I flipped it on him at the end of the interview. I said, hey dude, you know at the end of the day you sound like a really nice guy but what I don't hear is a closer and so he pushed back, he was like but but I am a closer, I am, I am good at what I do and he said it but he didn't mean it now.
I said that to people like, hey look, I appreciate you coming in, you've got an amazing resume. But at the end of the day you're more of a salesperson and we're really looking for closers and I've had people give me absolute push back, like you are out of your mind, you know, you have no idea what you're talking about. I've got proof, like, I'm like, good, I love that true true character comes out in those, those pushback moments. Yeah, like here's the thing under tension and under stress, you're gonna really reveal a lot about yourself.
One of the reasons that I shot so many Youtube videos was I wanted to be proficient in front of a video camera. Like I grew up as a kid, I had a stuttering problem, I had articulation disorder when I talked, it didn't sound right, and like I wanted to know that if I was ever in front of a camera, it was gonna be no big deal. I love that. I it's so funny because I actually did the same thing when I was growing up, I had terrible fear of speaking in front of the class, and so what I did was very similar to you.
I put a camera in front of myself and I said, I was, I would shoot a 30 minute impromptu video for the next year and I'll review it to see how it went. And so every single day, just impromptu impromptu impromptu and it sounded terrible in the videos. I never want to show anybody, but I totally resonate. It's it's such a powerful practice because you're forced to get better um you're forced to get better just doing it day in and day out. So I love that. You know, the cool thing is, you have, you have the ability to go to a shelf or something and pull that, that, that video off and go back and say this is where I was and this is where I am today.
I look at my first Youtube video and I'm like, oh my goodness, I am so embarrassed to even play this thing and then now it's like, I don't know, you want me to pull out a video camera or cell phone. I mean I got two of them smooth. I love it. Um, so I guess I just, I want to take, I mean as we're just wrapping things up because we're coming on the hour. Um, what I wanted to ask you was now, why why do you do this all?
Like what's I mean, do you believe that you have a higher purpose? Like, you know, like why do you do what it is that you do? You know, of course, you know, everyone has to, you know, make money and live, but like what's, what's the deeper purpose for you beyond all the tactical when, when I got started in 2001 in sales, there was no Youtube, there were no podcasts, there were no live streams. If I wanted to learn, I had to buy a book, an audio book or go to the library or pay for training and the hard thing was like I didn't know who to go to, I didn't know who to trust, I didn't know who to believe.
And so my belief is I've left breadcrumbs because like I will do and say things that are completely counterintuitive that close deals. So I wanted to leave breadcrumbs for somebody to go like look it shouldn't have to be this hard and I know where you are because I've been there myself Like I in like 2003 2004 like you have ups and downs and sales and I had committed to spend $100 a month on my education. So there was a borders books here in town. I'd get a paycheck, I'd go spend 100 bucks and one month my paycheck was like I have enough money for food but I don't have enough money to go buy these books and I don't have enough money to go buy these C. D. S. So I did what anybody would do.
I went and bought the books and and I scraped together money and I bought food at the dollar store and you know for me I look back at that time in my life and it was like I was I was going to figure out a way to make it and I know what that feels like to hold to have that check in your hand, you're like I've got stuff that I got to do with this but I made promises to myself, I gotta figure out a way to make it work.
And I don't ever want anybody to have to be in that position. I don't ever want somebody to have to, to say like, look, I'm trying to decide to figure out how to make this work because I will tell you, there are processes in the industry that just flat out don't work. And you know, I've got some accolades for some pretty awesome people in my life for what I've been able to train and what I've been able to do. So for me, I know what I do works and I know if somebody says, hey, can you help my team?
Absolutely, why would I do it? Because I know what it feels like to suck. I know what it feels like to not have the capability of making something happen when I should. Mm I love that. It's um, especially for for, for business owners just, they have that dream inside them. They, you know, they made that leap and people don't want that dream to die inside of them and it's, it's, it's suffering when it's not going the way that, that, that they wanted to. And so, and those people, if they were just equipped with the skills and the team, you know, magic could happen.
And so I love how what you're doing is connected to, you know, breathing life into dreams, breathing life into people, I will tell you this that if if somebody's watching and they have a team and they're like, hey, we want to hire somebody scott, we want to hire you, we want to hire some other guy. Fine training without accountability is a worthless, you're wasting your money. If there's zero accountability put to a training schedule, if you're not watching the numbers, you're trying to grow your business, you're gonna get pushed back.
Because the guys, the guys and the girls who really need the help are the people who are going to push back and saying, why are you looking at numbers now? If you're to iron handed and you're like, it's gotta be this way, probably not gonna be that good. On the other hand, if you're to lack about it, it's not gonna be good, there's like a happy medium and it's gonna come down to the personality of whoever's watching because I'm not, you got it of that. And we did have a question that came in from Cedric, he asked, would you recommend the door approach for someone who's trying to get their brand business or sail out there?
So it sounds like this is more of a question, You know, you're starting out, you know, would you, would you recommend this to someone just starting out, look, if I was just starting out, you've got a lot more on the line because you have no proof and no record, I would say absolutely practice the door approach like, but you're, there's other things that you're gonna have to do as well. And one of those things, one of the best things you can do is get testimonials. One of the best things that you could do is get those reviews on google my business and like listen like here, here's what you say. Cedric.
Uh, were you happy with what I provided for you today? Play cedric for a second john Yeah, super happy. Super happy with the service. Would you mind sharing with your friends and family? What kind of service that I provided for you? Would that be okay? Sure. Yeah, I could do that. Do you happen to have your phone on you right now? Yeah, I have it right here. Can can you go to google and search for X, Y, Z. Heating and air. Okay. Right. And so if we scroll over here, it's the fourth button that says reviews.
Will you click on that click and what would you tell your friends or family about my service? I thought it was great. They were prompt on time and you know, great, great value for what I believe you believe that I deserve five stars. Yeah five stars. Great. Can you put that in the google? All right, okay. Five stars. I mean I helped the company go from 200 reviews 18 months ago to 1100 this month. That's incredible. Yeah, but just using that process, did I deliver value to you? Did I take care of you?
And let's say that you said no, well what do I gotta do to make it right? Mm Like I'm dealing with a problem before it becomes a nightmare. So like when, when I had to manage teams, if I fix the problem today, it's a $10 problem. If I fix it next week, it's $100 problem. If I fix it the week after that, it's $1000 problem. The further that it gets out, the more costly it's going to be, wow, that's amazing. It's, it's a win win, right? You get a review or you fix the problem on the spot and you know this, this problem just doesn't simmer in someone's brain and they begin to spread, you know, it's horrible working with them.
They overcharged me. They were late and it doesn't work. So I love that approach. So can I, can I give you some insights that maybe you might not have heard please? Yeah, Google does not count your, your reviews as valid until you have 75-80 If you have less than 75 or 80 reviews, they really don't even consider them. And I think the average in the home service industry for reviews is 2020 total reviews. So way below the way that Google looks at that. Is that your friends and family. Mm, wow.
So as we're wrapping up, I guess any last words. And also how can people get into contact with you in case they want to reach out and ask for help. Sure. I've got a website called selling technicians dot com. I just had to rebuild it. Had to move it over from one platform to another. Gotta act. It's free and clear and okay to go to now where you can reach out to my office. 808364 99 06. So 8083649906. Um that's usually for something for a company or for an organization uh for the role and capacity that I have right now.
I don't just take on individual technicians as clients. Gotcha. Okay. And any parting words of wisdom to uh to people listening. Yeah. So as we're recording this today, it's like April 7th. You know, traditionally, especially like here in sacramento, it doesn't pick up for like another 15-20 days, slow down your calls by five or 10 minutes and see what happens. Five or 10 minutes. You're running four calls a day that's gonna get you 20 extra minutes on that call. Let's see what happens by slowing down five or 10 minutes, awesome.
Love it scott. So well thank you scott. I appreciate you so much. Lots of insights and takeaways for anyone who's just starting out their business or has an established team of technicians. Super excited for any takeaways that people get from this, and hopefully everyone, you can take this and grow your business, so thanks so much. Take care. And, yeah, we'll see you on the next episode.